Disney Thirty Days #21

[eastofthemoon]

Day #21: An overrated movie



First off, I have to say that Colours of the Wind is one of my favorite Disney songs and I don't mind when Disney makes a well known story more family friendly, especially when you consider how dark some of their original source materials can be, such as the Grim Brothers fairy tales and don't get me started on the Greek myths.

With all that said, I picked Pocahontas because doing that type of movie on a real historical figure is A LOT harder to swallow. (Yes, I know Mulan is argued to have really existed but since she's more shrouded in mystery it doesn't drive me as crazy.)

Here are some real facts about Pocahontas.

1. She was a lot younger than she was in the movie, somewhere between 12-14 I think.
2. She and John Smith were friends BUT NOT LOVERS
3. The whole "beheading" that Pocahontas was famous for saving John from, there's actually a lot of evidence showing that it was actually an adoption ritual for making John Smith part of their tribe. It was suppose to symbolize dying and being reborn as part of the tribe.

Also, am I think only person thinking that Pocahontas being married to Kocoum wouldn't have been so bad? I know he was "so serious" but considering Pocahontas was such a free spirit that actually might have been a good balance for her and vice versa. That might have been why her father agreed to the marriage in the first place. Just a thought.



Day #1: Your favorite character
Day #2: Your favorite princess
Day #3: Your favorite heroine
Day #4: Your favorite prince
Day #5: Your favorite hero
Day #6: Your favorite animal
Day #7: Your favorite sidekick
Day #8: Your favorite villain
Day #9: Your favorite original character (Mickey, Minnie, Donald, Goofy, etc.)
Day #10: Your favorite song
Day #11: Your favorite love song
Day #12: Your favorite villain song
Day #13: Your least favorite song
Day #14: Your favorite kiss
Day #15: The first movie you saw
Day #16: Your favorite classic
Day #17: Your least favorite classic
Day #18: Your favorite Pixar film
Day #19: Your least favorite Pixar film
Day #20: Favorite sequel
Day #21: An overrated movie
Day #22: An underrated movie
Day #23: A movie that makes you laugh
Day #24: A movie that makes you cry
Day #25: Your favorite scene from your favorite movie
Day #26: Saddest death
Day #27: Your favorite quote
Day #28: Your favorite theme park Changed to: Favorite Disney animated TV Series
Day #29: Your favorite theme attraction Changed to: Your Least Favorite Disney animated TV Series
Day #30: Your favorite theme park show Changed to: Your Favorite Live Action Disney Film

Comments

[dqbunny.livejournal.com]

Hear!! Hear!!! *claps, cheers and whistles*

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

*glomps* ^_^

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

Pocahontas marrying Kocoum would have been bad, yes, since it's not at all historically accurate. Pocahontas did actually marry outside of her race, wedding the Englishman John Rolfe. (Not that I recommend seeing Disney's sequel.) 'Pocahontas' isn't even her real name but a nickname given to her that meant "little mischief". Obedient and submissive daughter she was not. ^_-;

Anyway, I can't fault Disney for the changes it made. I don't really care that they aged Pocahontas up and John Smith down since in our current society, it is not at all proper for young girls and older men to be interested in each other, but back in the day it was common practice. Plus, Pocahontas did a lot of good for the early settlers, so it's nice that her legend gets passed on to future generations. (That said, it's a shame Sacagawea continues to disappear into obscurity.)

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

I know Pocahontas married John Rolfe, I'm just saying refusing Kokoum just because he's "too serious" isn't a good enough reason for me storywise.

Also, a lot of people's complaints, especially from the Powhatan Nation (http://www.powhatan.org/pocc.html) , about this movie is that Pocahontas and her tribe were not treated so "well" as they were in the movie and it's very inaccurate.

Anyway, I just think it's a shame that Disney didn't do a Native myth instead. They could have done a wonderful job retelling one on the big screen. There's a dozen of them begging to be made into a Disney film. Hiawatha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Hiawatha) would have been a lovely choice for them.

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

Given Pocahontas' tendency to be free-spirited and do what she wanted, not what others expected her to do, Kocoum being "serious" is just the tip of the iceberg of reasons why she wouldn't find him appealing. Would you want to be married off to a man who didn't share any of your zest for life?

Brother Bear is based off native legend, actually, so technically Disney already has. Neither movie did very well (people tended to complain about the movies more than anything), so it's understandable why Disney would back away from such things. Unfortunate though.

[dqbunny.livejournal.com]

I agree, Hiawatha would have been a lovely choice.

The sequel is much, much worse, as you and I were discussing. It's actually a Disney film I don't want my kids seeing because I don't want them getting the wrong image about this historic character. If they do want to see it, I'll make sure that they know that it's make-believe. Disney can do things wrong, and this is definitely something they got wrong.

[secondlina.livejournal.com]

I would have liked if She would have been a little girl like she was usppose to be. They could have thrown in some family aesops, have John Smith play a fatherly or brotherly role... I dunno.

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

If they had made her younger it would have been more accurate, especially if they had John Smith as an guest and maybe she and him has to save the tribe or something. *ponders* The whole story could have been done a lot better.

[pip25.livejournal.com]

This reminds of ichiban_victory's trivia about Aladdin, where the main protagonist was also planned to be younger than what he finally ended up.
There, the change made sense to me; here I don't really know. Pocahontas being her historical age would have obviously nullified the romantic aspects of the movie (or, alternatively, would have sent a mob of angry parents against the studio :P), and given the scenario romance was something the creators probably did not want to pass up.
Whether the movie would have benefited overall, I guess we'll never know. What I do know is that I've seen this film when it came out, and while I didn't think it was bad, it did not leave a really lasting impression, unlike many other films of the studio.

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

I will forever love the movie for depicting Native Americans as their own thriving human society, not just mere savages. Also, Colors of the Wind is one of my favorite songs from Disney, ever. Aside from that, this is definitely not one of the more memorable, but it is interesting to note that it was drawn in a more realistic style than most Disney movies, which was a challenge to the animators. It is a shame the movie didn't do as well as hoped, after all the money that was spent to produce it. (Lion King was being worked on at the same time. Pocahontas was to be the "A" movie, while Lion King was the "B" film. Who could have predicted the B movie outperforming the A?)

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

*laughs* Yeah, that's a good point too. *imagines an army of angry parents with torches* I guess the romance bugs me since in real life John and Pocahontas were friends and knew each other, but they weren't lovers, but I can't deny this is me being picky. (Can you tell I'm a history geek XP).

With that said, I do agree that there are better Disney films out there. (Lion King, Brother Bear, etc) ^_~

[noseless-wonder.livejournal.com]

I agree with your opinion. Messing with the historical facts a little isn't enough to really ruin the movie for me, but it definitely interrupts the enjoyment. Plus, I don't really see what would be wrong with a movie that featured mixed genders who weren't romantically involved. I know it's less dramatic, but if the story's strong, you don't have to worry about that as much. (I could be biased though; my best friend in the world is a guy)

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

(Hey, one of my best buds is a guy, so I totally understand. ^_~)

I just find it's harder to swallow when they don't try to be accurate. They don't have to be perfect, but they changed A LOT of things in Pocahontas. In the movie, they seemed to ignore the fact that the English held her captive for over a year. @_@ Big thing to skip over.

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

Well, if you're going to want that, we'll have to add in her conversion to Christianity as well. It gets a bit too messy for what Disney would want to show, most likely. (Can you imagine the outrage people who have if they saw that happen? Despite the fact it did happen.) From what I've read on it, Pocahontas was not treated badly while in captivity, since she did obviously convert to Christianity, married an Englishman, and even decided she'd rather remain in the white culture than to live with her tribe.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It's ironic that the sequel (which tried to be more "historically accurate" by hooking her up with Rolfe) made a big deal about Pocahontas being true to her heritage when the real Pocahontas did the exact opposite.

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

(Bleh, I saw it once but remember only that Mel Gibson didn't provide the voice for John Smith. I think his brother did..)

It's not 'PC' for people to adopt a new way of life in this day and age, and I can already hear critics howling if Disney had been 100% accurate. Same goes for if they had actually portrayed Zeus as he really is (a womanizer and impregnator of mortal women, the horrors!) in Hercules, people would have gone ballistic! Disney's unfortunately given in to avoiding strife with the PC Police. A shame, really, but given how people continue to trash Disney for every single thing it does, I can't say I blame Disney. It's not fun being in the public eye.

[amelia-seyroon.livejournal.com]

I agree on EVERYTHING you say about this!

And why can't any of the animals talk like in other Disney films?

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

The animals did talk, originally, but then Disney decided to go more for realism so talking animals went away.

[amelia-seyroon.livejournal.com]

Lame.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

Also, am I think only person thinking that Pocahontas being married to Kocoum wouldn't have been so bad? I know he was "so serious" but considering Pocahontas was such a free spirit that actually might have been a good balance for her and vice versa. That might have been why her father agreed to the marriage in the first place. Just a thought.

The interesting thing about Kocoum is that he was a lot more affectionate, jovial, and lovable in the original script (if this deleted song is any indication anyway):



When I discovered this song I was a little bummed that Disney opted to suck all the personality out of Kocoum in the final film. I assume they did it so it would be easier for the audience to root for John Smith and Pocahontas to hook up.
I bet they also did it to make his death less depressing for the audience. But it still strikes me as a total cop out. Mainly because seeing the happy Kocoum from the deleted scene go into a jealous rage and then get killed would have had a stronger impact.

[secondlina.livejournal.com]

Dude, I like this Kokum. I would have hated John Smith! *laughs*

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I KNOW! I would have been yelling "What are you doing, you cheating bitch!?" at the screen for the entirety of the movie if the happy Kocoum had made it to the final cut. XD

[secondlina.livejournal.com]

He might have survived if the animators felt the same (which may explain the cut scene)

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call Pocahontas "over rated". I don't know about the average movie-goer, but I know that just about every animation nut I'm acquainted with hates the living hell out of that movie.


I loved Pocahontas when I was a kid. But it lost some it's appeal as I grew up. Not because of the historical inaccuracies (honestly, anyone who expects Disney movies to function like documentaries is an idiot who needs to pull the stick out of their nether regions); but because of the story issues the movie had.

The first time I watched the Pocahontas, I thought it was pretty ballsy of Disney to end the movie with John Smith leaving instead of living happily ever after with Pocahontas. But now that I think about it...if they were going to have John Smith leave anyway, why didn't Disney just make John and Pocahontas platonic friends like they were in real life instead of crafting a cheesy, melodramatic "Romeo and Juliet" romance for them.

And I know this goes without saying; but the sequel was just pathetic. It was so obvious that Disney was just trying to fix the historical inaccuracies they got criticized for. It might have been okay if John Smith had stayed dead instead of popping up at the end of the movie and saying "Hey guys! Turns out I wasn't murdered after all! Lucky me!". But, since he was alive, we got a really awkward break up scene before Pocahontas runs off with John Rolfe:
-Pocahontas: "Hey John Smith. I'm glad you're not dead. But when I thought you were worm food, I fell pretty hard for this other English dude named John. So it's over between us. No hard feelings, right?"
-John Smith: "It's cool baby. My true love is the ocean, anyway"
-Pocahontas: "Awesome! I'm gonna go make out with John Rolfe now. Bye!"

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

I know a movie isn't going to be 100 percent accurate, but they did take A LOT of liberties with Pocahontas. If you haven't read it, you should look her up on wiki. There's a lot of stuff the movie left out. Granted, I'm a history geek and thus I can get nitpick.

On that note, I liked the earlier version of Kocoum. They probably did change him so it wouldn't be such a great loss when he died.